J.T.'s Inserted Comment

[Student: How do you respond if someone were to say well uh, what's the sense in prayin' if we just trust you know God, then there's really no since in prayin' if it in God's plan and will to heal us then]

Dr. Bowdle: We are to pray and to leave it with God. Pray earnestly and leave it. Cast all your care upon Him. We do while we're praying and then we take it back and bear it. Uh,

[Student: Tustin' that He's caren' for us.]

Dr. Bowdle: Yes, you do pray. That is scripturally important. I'm not sure why necessarily except what He does tell us. We pray and leave it with God who has a will for us and He's smarter and knows what's better for us than we do. Now, let's bring it to the tragedy of Sister W.

Everybody has got a time and a way to die. God knows what it is. That is factored into our experience from the foundation of the world. God knew she was going to die. God knew she was going to have an accident. There is nothing that could have happened that could have spared her from that accident. That was her time and her place. You've got one. I've got one. All of us have one. I honestly meant to believe that. Um, Brother W's son, Brother P., after whom the arena is named, as you know was killed in a car wreck, and his wife was almost killed in a car wreck, um, same wreck. Um, number of years ago as he was going home from uh, college. He had graduated and was visiting and on his way back somewhere in Georgia, and someone driving on the wrong side of the road, and I don't know the circumstances, and uh, brother P. met head-on.

Brother L., do you know Brother L.? He was kind of a Guru here in the academic community. He was one of the few people left who had any contact with the founding persons of the Church of God. His dad was M.S. Lemons, one of the ministers. So he would uh, bring to many pastoral classes here an' at the seminary observations from our history first hand. Very, very fine man. He said, um, one time in a discussion with a small group about Brother W. accident, he said: look, there is a law of physics that says that two objects when in opposite directions on the same track are going to collide. That is a basic law of physics. God just knows how and when I'm gonna' die; and how and when you're gonna' die, and nothin's gonna' change that, I'm sorry, it isn't. Um?

[Student: How would you define I guess the actual purpose of prayer? ... how would it affect or for instance other persons that we pray for]

Dr. Bowdle: I think that first of all, I think its a, its a matter of obedience. We bear one another burdens and so forth all to Christ. Take it to the Lord in prayer. Casting all your care upon Him 'cause he cares for you. We're mandated to pray about it. We become better people, we become by the praying we become more able to see God's purpose and if we can't see the purpose we become more readily able to submit to whatever God's purpose is though we can't understand it than we would without it. But I don't; I, I remember uh, in, in my uh, folks home a little plaque that said: "prayer changes things." Prayer does change things. It changes the way I look at circumstances. It doesn't change the circumstances, as I said. So we are mandated to pray. Uh, it doesn't move God to do something that uh, he had decided not to do. I cannot understand all the dynamics of prayer. But God doesn't change in His being, in His promises, in His purposes.

[Student: If prayer isn't a catalyst then uh?]

Dr. Bowdle: It is a catalyst

[Student: I mean towards God as far as the way it affects God, not the individual. I'm saying as far as God is concerned, it's not a catalyst in causing God to do something. Then why sometime when people are prayed for, why are they healed immediately after prayer, or, do you see what I'm saying?]

Dr. Bowdle: Yeah. I can't answer that.

[Student: O.K. I just wanted to know.]

Dr. Bowdle: Yeah, Why, why for example did Jesus heal (snapped finger) like that and on at least one other example He prayed for a blind man, the blind man saw human beings like trees. Jesus prayed again and then his focus came. I don't know. Y' know I wonder that too. I don't know. Why does God heal some and not others. Is it because they prayed hard or they had more faith? No. Great question! I don't have a way to answer it. Sister G.

[Student: I, I was going to comment on that. I had epilepsy which is incurable, and from the time I was diagnosed with it when I was seven, I prayed almost every church service. I went for prayers to be healed. I was fifteen years old before I was healed. It, that was God's time. Any other time He could have had it been his will, but he didn't]

Dr. Bowdle: And we don't always know why you had to be fifteen in God's mind, uh, at a certain time and at a certain place but it was important to God. It had to be good. That's a great testimony Sister G.

[Student: Um, two things. I think prayer for the most part (tape noise) God made us emotional beings. I think one of the best things about prayer is just the fact that it couldn't change God's mind but it helps me through all of my despair and grief and everything that is inside of me out onto God so He can bear it, and I can't, and that helps me release all of that on Him (tape noise) it gives me the assurance that He's taking care of the situation.]

Dr. Bowdle: And what your saying isn't some kind of counseling technique, It's scripture isn't it? (tape noise)

[Student: Benny Hinn also has a book at home, which I'm not suggesting that um, is right, I'm just saying that they're out there. But as far as uh, praying, also prayers which, uh, I don't want to say cause God to do things for you, but are ]

Dr. Bowdle: I used that at Lee College along time ago. ... Um, Augustine said, this isn't the way he put it but this is what he meant. Um, immutability and eternity are flip sides of a coin. Y' have to look at them together. Immutability is the idea that God is devoid of all change as we said in His being, in His promises, and in His purposes. Eternity could be identified as the infinity of God in relation to time; the infinity of God in relation to time.

Notice how closely immutability, or changelessness and eternity go together. They are almost necessary complimentary attributes. When my kids were little, I stood them up against the door casing periodically and uh, put a ruler on top of their heads like maybe your parents did for you and made a little mark on the door casing and put a date there. Y' know it doesn't (break) I could see changes in my children. The way I know I'm getting older, is because of changes that I observe in other things and changes in me, too. Change is an attribute of material. Change is an attribute of time. God is neither material nor time.

We know that time is passing primarily because of changes we observe. We don't know that time is passing by merely flipping the calendar over. We know time is passing because we are changing, uh, intellectually, physiologically, biologically, societally, um, and this is very, very true the older you get. You know, you observe change and you know time is passing. With God, if you know there is no time, or if God is an eternal being, then change can not be part of His capability; if you want to put it that way; not part of God's experience. . . .